Monday
Jul122010
Monday Open Thread
Monday, July 12, 2010 at 11:29AM
This week’s open thread is hosted by Wasp Woman because Another Rachel said she should get a chance.
What’s happening? News? Thoughts? Puffy summer pregnancies to complain about?
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Reader Comments (55)
I'm trying so hard to convince a mother to be to have a home-birth... what da ya do?
From time to time, I encounter someone who is "dipping her toe in the VBAC water" by agreeing with her provider that she can have a TOL/VBAC only before a certain date (say, 38-39 weeks, or maybe even her due date, at which time she will have a scheduled RCS). When I, or others, raise concerns about the logical or scientifically based reason for that arbitrary cut-off date, she says she is totally fine with it and doesn't wish to argue it with her provider or change providers.
I don't understand these situations. Don't women either want a VBAC or not want one? And should we really be supporting providers who set a non evidence-based and arbitrary deadline like that for a healthy woman with a normal pregnancy? Aren't they raising VBAC hopes for women who are probably not going to be given a real chance?
"me"... As much as I wish some of my friends would have said "Hey, it's clear that you want ___ to attend your birth at home so why don't you scrap the birth center plan?", they didn't. The only thing I got out of them was that I had to give birth where I felt comfortable.
On the other hand, random people in public have no problem popping off about how it's CRRRRAZY to not give birth in a hospital. I'm ultimately glad I didn't feel pushed in any direction.
So, I don't know. Why do you think she should give birth at home?
In answer to "me" who posted about trying to convince someone to have a home birth, my recommendation is: "Don't"
I believe women need to birth where THEY feel safest. They need to make choices based on where they are in THEIR life. You can absolutely talk about how lovely your homebirth experiences were, and make available resources to explain that the usual choice isn't the only choice. But I think it's counterproductive and ill-advised to have a GOAL of persuading someone to birth a particular way, and that applies equally to talking moms OUT of homebirth as it does to talking moms INTO homebirth.
There is no way anyone could have talked me into homebirth with my first, and if they'd pushed, I would have become more close-minded. I wasn't even ready with my third, though chose free-standing birth center for that one. It was only with my fourth that I personally was ready.
My sister-in-law is going in for a hospital birth any day now and I stopped trying to convince her to do a home birth after about 30 seconds. She has lots of home-birth friends. The research is available to her. But she said she absolutely didn't feel safe at home, and I can't argue with her feelings, any more than she could argue me into having a hospital birth. Everyone gets their own choice, right?
KK, regarding their feelings, it's hard to say why anyone really feels the way they do. I think it's pretty typical to not want a fight and to just kind of go with the flow, even if it flows right back to a scheduled cesarean. Maybe some people just like to keep the door open but really kind of want a repeat cesarean and are too afraid to admit it.
Re. the bait-and-switch and arbitrary time frames, even doctors (and L&D nurses and CNMs) talk about other docs they know who pull that crap. It's pathetic. It's like the Month Python Flying Circus sketch with the cheese shop where they actually don't sell any cheese.
Leah, yes. And hopefully that choice is honored.
Congrats on your impending auntiehood. Such a fun relationship! I adore my nieces and nephews.
I don't think there is a right place to birth. Empowered birth/positive experience can happen in hospital or home with the right care provider. Autonomy and respect aren't limited to homebirth midwives. Dr Biter is a good example of that and certainly not the only one.
Women learn so much about themselves during pregnancy and birth, no matter what. I learned as much (or more) from my decision to ignore my inner voice and birth with a crummy doc in the hospital as I did from my healing home birth. It gave me the opportunity to define who I wanted to be as a woman and mother, share what I learned with others, start a business, host a radio show. I have no idea where I'd be without that horrible experience. But with it, and maybe even because of it, I have something important to give to other women- assistance in finding and listening to their own inner voice.
Hooray for Wasp Woman! I can totally relate to her.
I agree that you can't/shouldn't convince someone to homebirth. If I think someone is open, I suggest at least interviewing a homebirth MW. I suggest it as a learning experience and hey, you've got nothing to lose. Just be a supportive resource. I know how hard it can be to bite one's tongue esp when you know the evidence and horror stories. It's really hard.
I think the stuff about KK's VBAC question is also really hard. I think the fears run deep and the trust in the medical establishment to do what's best. So they might sorta want a VBAC, but also be really afraid of labor or their body 'failing' again or whatever... and thus follow doc's suggestions. Two friends recently attempted VBAC. The one who got the VBAC changed to a MW/OB practice, hired a doula, read stuff like Ina May and Business of Being Born. Ironically, she believes her VBAC was due to just the randomness of the birth being really different, rather than the different circumstances she chose. So, who knows? The friend who did labor but ended up CBAC, used the same doc who was negative from the start, no doula, no new reading... she said she had some regrets but was at peace with it.
I also think about Naomi Wolf's story in Misconceptions (a book that irritated the crap out of me). Despite all of her research, she could not quite grasp how low intervention could be better than high tech in the birth scenario. It is just SO HARD to get our heads around something that flies in the face of our deeply held cultural assumptions.
I'm reading Slow Death by Rubber Duck (about toxins and the chemical industry and basically makes me want to live in a yurt in the mountains) and they mention "... the shocking inability of humans to act prudently when presented with the facts." Add to that the intense emotional charge around pregnancy, fears, docs know best.... for someone to really go for a VBAC, she is up against a LOT.
That's enough ramble for now. And I spent like 30 mins looking up that quote, don't tell my boss.
My EDD is in about a week. The Little One feels so big (though she's not above average in size...). I live in the Northeast, I am stuck indoors....
My sister is driving me NUTS. I am planning an unmedicated/physiological birth with a midwifery practice (wanted a homebirth but the insurance company wouldn't have paid out). I am going to breastfeed. I'm a biochemist whom does research in human biochemistry concerning nutrition and pharmaceuticals; I have done my research. My sister calls me every other day with birth/breastfeeding horror stories, including her own - telling me she just wants me to be "prepared." Yes sis, I feel prepared all on my own. I tell her the research of why I am doing X, Y, Z and not A, B, C and she launches into some story about a friend. It's very frustrating because otherwise I love my sister, and I don't want to strain our relationship - she can be very touchy about past decisions.
I'm 36 wks into a serious case of the preggers. Suddenly I feel completely encumbered by a large head wedging itself into my pelvis. Yesterday, while playing "lasso the foot" with my underwear I heard a creaking noise, and it turned out to be my pelvis, not the old wooden floor. Ouch. So in this crazy heat in the Northeast (I live in VT, why is it 100 degrees?) I am simply maintaining. Cereal for dinner anyone?
"When I, or others, raise concerns about the logical or scientifically based reason for that arbitrary cut-off date, she says she is totally fine with it and doesn't wish to argue it with her provider or change providers."
I had this friend too. And when I gently but relentlessly pushed to get underneath this, it turned out that she was secretly relieved at the idea of being able to get out of the VBAC. She knew she was supposed to want to VBAC, but she was frankly scared of vaginal birth, scared of tearing, scared of incontinence. She had had a relatively uncomplicated and easy recovery from her c/s. It was the devil she knew, where "the damage was already done." Why risk a new scar "down there" instead of using the old one in her abdomen?
I can't fathom this myself, being quite rationally phobic of knives and needles and tubes and machines that go ping, but this woman had her own deep-seated fears she didn't want to admit to. And she had a story she was telling the world to cover for the fact that she kinda knew that what she wanted was flying in the face of the evidence and maybe the best possible health outcome for herself and baby.
To Meghan- Just had to mention my own sister story and tell ya I feel your pain! I had a CNM for my first (and 2nd and 3rd) pregnancy, and stayed pregnant until 42 weeks exactly. My sister, (the doctor), spent the last two weeks of my pregnancy explaining to me (an L&D nurse with 3 years of experience at the time!!) and OUR MOTHER!! that I was killing the baby and would be lucky if he came out alive. I mean, to the point my mom was calling me up and expressing her concern about mine and my husband's (a Family Medicine doctor BTW!) judgment, and that we really should be induced. I had seen too many 1st pregnancy inductions not go well, so until 42 weeks no way, no how for me! But if I hadn't been an L&D nurse married to a FM doc who was experienced with midwives and knew I was right, the guilt and pressure probably would have made me cave. The result- at 42 and 1 day my 10lb 12oz son was born vaginally after 24 hours of active labor (and a couple of threats of CS, but I was midwife protected and very determined!). Came screaming into the world and actually had gained weight on discharge (breastfeeding on demand). Family can make things hard, but believe in what you know to be true!! I still love my sister, and managed to not kill her those weeks mostly by avoiding her, which is why my mom started bugging us. Good luck in all things!!
I learned a long time ago - both from dealing with and BEING the pushy "This is what you need to do at your birth" person - that no one wants to listen to other people's opinions. I don't care what my SIL thinks about how I'm raising my children, my cousin doesn't want to hear why she should pursue a VBAC. The normal human reaction is to stop listening. Even in my CB classes, I don't ramble on about what I think, I let the students relate the information back to themselves and their own experiences. Whatever else childbirth is, it should be personal and deeply relevant to ourselves before anything else.
KK- I was a little like that with my first VBAC. He came at 37 weeks, so I don't really know what I would have done at 40 wks, but I might have given in to a RCS. It wasn't until I had that VBAC, which was pretty tramatic actually, that I realized what I really wanted in a birth. My CS wasn't fun (scheduled for breech at 40 wks), and I knew I didn't want that again, but it wasn't as tramatic as my VBAC. I'm now 5 weeks along with my third, have switched to a midwife practice and am excited and nervous for how this birth will go. I obviously have a lot of time to prepare and think about it. I'm just trying to think positively.
Emily, that was a memory I was happy to forget... waking up my family with my popping pubic symphysis. It's like it echoed throughout my body!
I wish pregnant northeasterners could get an exemption from the heat this year. Not sure who I would petition, though.
I am at 38 wks with #3, will probably go until between 40 and 41 wks based on my history, and am so BEYOND done being pregnant. Now, I'm not demanding an induction or anything what with my deeply held convictions and a midwife group that would just laugh at me if I asked, but damn it's a good reminder of why it's so easy to sway women into an induction by this point. I mean seriously, no wonder OBs are all "but women ask for it!" well OBVIOUSLY they do, the end of pregnancy SUCKS. Sadly, they aren't willing to act in women's best interests (though, my OB group with Kid #1 wouldn't even let me take anything stronger than Tylenol for my KIDNEY STONES, so obviously if it's not their convenience we're talking about they're more than willing to take the hard-assed route).
I feel a bit better. I could definitely go for some labor action starting asap, but getting that rant out helped a bit. ;-)
I wish I had pregnancy complaints :( The baby I miscarried in Dec would have had an EDD of 8/11... my birthday. I would love to have had a summer pregnancy/birth. Now we are having trouble conceiving and I don't have insurance to see an RE, nor do I really want to use clomid or anything anyway.
Other than that, I have been trying to remove myself from the birth world for the summer. Focusing on the kids, our new little house and living in the moment.
I'm happy that a friend has decided to have a home birth! I hope I helped her make the decision, but I didn't want to push her. Like Me is dealing with, I guess, you just have to lay some stuff out gently and then go. No women should birth where she's scared to be, period, whether that's home, hospital, or turnpike. :) I know with my third that there were about 2 weeks where I thought I'd have to be in hospital, and those were two really terrifying weeks for me. Fortunately, it all turned around and baby 3 came at home too.
Generally, though, I'm just biding my time for the next two weeks so I can write all this stuff floating about in my head, but that needs more than 5 random minutes on a Tuesday to get complete! Ah! Bar exams! Ah!
Wow! Good luck to all of the pregnant women, big hugs to Vanessa, and good luck on the Bar, ANA!
Also, I should know by now not to self-medicate with peanut butter brownies. Sigh.